The Community Effects of Real ID

The Community Effects of Real ID

Topic Author: Anne Cutler

Posted: 5:44 PM Apr 28, 2008

Replies Posted: 20 comments

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The Community Effects of Real ID

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The Community Effects of Real ID

With Real ID, it's no longer a right to move around freely in this country, it's a privilege. Real ID is required to enter certain buildings, travel between states and get on a plane. Many say it's a step toward a national surveillance system and national ID card.

The ACLU is one organization opposing Real ID, but not the only one. The spectrum ranges from minority groups to advocates for domestic violence victims, as well as evangelicals who strictly interpret the bible and think national ID is a mark of the beast!

One reason many people oppose it involves documentation. Citizens must provide a social security card and birth certificate, which will be scanned into a state database. At this point, there is no plan for a national database, but there are also no safeguards to prevent one.

The act also requires states to limit the types of identifying information an applicant can provide. The Nevada Department of Motor Vehicles currently takes 15 different documents for you to prove your identification. Under Real ID, the DMV only takes 7, because those can be verified.

Most individuals can provide a social security card and birth certificate, but that isn't always the case. Take, for example, African Americans who were denied critical documents during the Jim Crowe era. Another case is immigrants, who are here legally, but can't always prove it.

They may be a lawful permanent resident. they may be a refugee, they may be an immigrant who is here legally short term. All of these people are going to be stuck in this gray area. because while they're here perfectly legally, and are entitled to a state license under current rules, they cannot necessarily prove that they're a citizen.

The Nevada DMV currently has a process to deal with situations where an applicant can't provide necessary documentation. The Real ID Act and Department of Homeland Security have given states the latitude to create exceptions, but so far, none has been developed or approved.

Real ID can always be circumvented by a passport. The nevada department of motor vehicles just decided that it will still issue a regular Nevada license. So if you have a passport, you don't travel by air, or simply don't want to be a part of Real ID, technically, you don't have to.

Posted by: Ron Location: Dayton
First it will be a Real ID. Then a chip in your skin. It will not stifle border crossings or anything but enable the government to track your every move. If you trust our government is telling you the truth about Real ID, I have a bridge for sale. If the Real ID is issued, you will see "check point charlies" at every state border crossing. Ilegal searches at these crossings, the start of chaos and total breakdown of the American way of life. The only way to stop ilegal border crossings is by closing the borders. Not with a stupid card. Everything can be forged. With these computers and someone who knows how, some hacker will find a way to forge Real ID for ilegals. Did I mention that Real ID may include your own personal RFID Tracking chip?

Posted by: Dylan Location: Nevada
Ideally, the rtGO program that the airport uses for registered travel can give people an idea of how this technology will interface with people in the real world. It is currently disabled but should be back online soon.

Posted by: NV DMV PIO Location: Reno, NV
Here's what DHS has to say about the fear that all these scanned documents DMVs across the country are archiving will somehow result in a national database: "The...regulations establish common standards for States to issue licenses. The Federal Government is not issuing the licenses, is not collecting information about license holders, and is not requiring States to transmit license holder information to the Federal Government that the Government does not already have (such as a Social Security Number). Most States already routinely collect the information required by the Act and the...regulations." Also, there is the federal Driver's Privacy Act and Nevada Revised Statue 481.063. The first restricts the release of information by all states and the second is specific to Nevada. Bottom line, laws would have to change or be enacted for something like a national dababase to come about.

Posted by: NV DMV PIO Location: Reno, NV
Sarah, Read my comment to Judy below. It addresses one of your questions. The question as to why you should have to show up at a DMV office with your documents after already having done so is a good one, though. That requirement is probably the biggest pain the Real ID Act holds for the individual. The reason you have to “re-enroll” as the Department of Homeland Security calls it is so the DMV can scan and archive your documents. Why does the DMV have to do that? One reason is that, if the DMV doesn’t, under the requirements of the Real ID Act, you would have to truck those documents back to a DMV office when renewing your license so the DMV could verify the documents all over again. Inconvenient? You bet, and that’s one of the biggest complaints about the law. As for the fear of all those scanned documents morphing into a national data base, read my next post.

Posted by: Ken Location: Reno
This is wonderfull.It is not the mark of the beast. Will know when that happens because we will have a choice. This on the other hand is good for know one person can get away from paying taxes..

Posted by: Chad Location: Reno
Very good points on both sides of the argument.

Posted by: Sarah Location: Fallon
There is an area that has not been mentioned. Immigrants who are here legally may have a problem, but what about US born citizens who don't have a birth certificate. All births were not required to be registered until when, sometime in the 1960s. What about the many who don't have a birth certificate and have no living relatives older than them or don't know anything about others who could verify their birth. Also those adopted who were not issued new Birth Certificates only certificate of adoption. In 1960 I received my drivers license. I had to show I was married at that time. I like many women have already proved who we are. So, why do we have to do this again. All who have already shown documentation to show who they are should just be issued a new Real State I.D. or Drivers License. And we should be allowed to vote on whether something this changing should be allowed. There are too many problems and loopholes in this whold thing. Why?

Posted by: John Location: Carson City
The Real ID act is another case of the federal government overstepping its bounds, assuming there are any left after the Patriot Act. If I need a passport or federally regulated ID to fly to Florida what else will they get into next. I think this is becoming slippery slope and while there are positives on both sides, we are heading in the wrong direction.

Posted by: Anne Cutler Location: KOLO 8
Jack, you're right... the feds did open a big can of worms. I addressed the funding issue in a story about Real ID that ran in February. What it boils down to is this... The program will cost billions (no one knows exactly how much, but estimates put it around 11 billion). If the state or the federal government shoulders the bill, it really doesn't make a difference. In the end, it's you, the taxpayer, who will pay.

Posted by: Larry Location: WA
Why not just fix the borders and leave us legal folks alone. How about that for freedom.

Posted by: NV DMV PIO Location: Reno, NV
Judy, I'm assuming that you have a Nevada driver's license right now as well as some sort of legal paperwork documenting your adoption. If I'm right about the license, you'll be able to renew that without any inconvenience. If you have adoption papers, you may be able to get a passport. Ironically, standards for identification for passports are more relaxed than for Real ID compliant state licenses, even though you can use a passport in lieu of a Real ID compliant card. Finally, there is a provision for special cases in the Real ID Act. That provision is for citizens, not immigrants. How the state and the federal government are going to handle those special cases has yet to be determined.

Posted by: NV DMV PIO Location: Reno, NV
Jack, Left out of the story that ran last night and this morning was that the DMV has applied for a federal grant to help pay for the cost of implementing the Real ID Act. We're still waiting to hear if the grant will be funded. Bottom line, though, it's the Nevada taxpayer - you and me - who will end up paying whatever the DMV can't squeeze out of the federal government. And you won't be able to get a Real ID Act compliant driver's license or ID card until some time in 2010. Thanks to an extension the department applied for and was granted, your present Nevada driver's license or ID card will work just fine for federal purposes until then.

Posted by: jack Location: hawthorne
I tried to get one, the systems are not even close to being in place! dmv, does'nt even know, if, how, or, when, they will be available!, "they opened a BIG can of worms , on this one"!,... And who do you think is going to pay for all this!???

Posted by: Judy Location: Gardnerville
Where do those of us who were adopted 50 years ago stand with regard to the birth certificate portion of the ID requirements? Any answers out there?

Posted by: Anne Cutler Location: KOLO 8
As for the immigration point. Never did I say that immigrants could not receive a Real ID. I stated that “All of these people are going to be stuck in this gray area.” You and I discussed this issue at length. Nevada currently has an exception system in place for special cases. Real ID does not. In my on-air story, the tag clearly stated “The Real ID Act and Department of Homeland Security have given states the latitude to create exceptions, but so far, none has been developed or approved.” That is almost verbatim from what you told me.

Posted by: Anne Cutler Location: KOLO 8
In response to your comments, the loss of freedom occurs when the federal government restricts our ability to travel between states. Through Real ID, the American public is being coerced into compliance. We, as Americans, did not vote on Real ID, we did not agree to Real ID, and we didn’t find out about Real ID until it had already passed. You are correct, the Real ID compliant card will serve the same purpose, but it is not the same card. It costs more money and is more difficult to obtain. Additionally, by obtaining a Real ID compliant card, we concede to allow state governments to archive personal information, with no guarantee that down the road, that it won’t be shared with the feds. Thus, Real ID does impede our ability to travel between states.

Posted by: NV DMV PIO Location: Reno, NV
Just one more issue and then I'll let the Court of Public Opinion convene. Anne writes: "All of these people are going to be stuck in this gray area. because while they're here perfectly legally, and are entitled to a state license under current rules, they cannot prove that they're a citizen." Anne, it's not a gray area. They are NOT citizens and that's why they can't prove they are. Get it? Lawfully permanent residents can't prove they're citizens. Why? Because they aren't citizens of this country. Despite what the ACLU says, people who are not citizens but are in this country legally will be able to get a Real ID compliant driver license or ID card.

Posted by: NV DMV PIO Location: Reno, NV
As for non-citizens in this country legally, they will qualify for a Real ID Act compliant driver license or ID card because, being in the country legally, they will have the verifiable documents proving that fact. The only difference between that person and a citizen is the non-citizen will be issued a license or ID card for the length of time that person is permitted to stay or four years, which ever is shortest. Frankly, despite the concerns of the ACLU, people who are not citizens of this country but are in the country legally…well…uh…have the documents or the wherewithal to prove it. No less is required of a non-citizen under current rules than is required under the Real ID Act other than the Nevada DMV is required to verify all documents in all cases. Right now, we only do that if we suspect fraud. Thanks, Anne, for contributing to the confusion, misdirected emotion and misinformation surrounding this issue. You'll get lots and lots of comments. Mission accomplished.

Posted by: NV DMV PIO Location: Reno, NV
The Real ID Act compliant card will serve the same purpose the card you now carry does. Why is that so hard to undersand? And, Anne, “…travel between states?” You’ll need a card to travel between states? The Real ID Act is re-shaping interstate commerce? Like, the federal government is setting up checkpoints between Utah and Nevada with people in uniform saying things like “Let me zee your papers.” The need for some sort of identification to travel across state lines is a perfect example of the misinformation and confusion surrounding the Real ID Act. Who told you that? Anne, you and I have discussed this issue at length and never has the notion that some sort of ID will be required to cross state lines. Ms. Cutler, you are a good journalist and on this point you are stuffed to the gills with bravo sierra.

Posted by: NV DMV PIO Location: Reno, NV
There are a couple of things fundamentally wrong with the content of this blog and it underscores not only how complicated the Real ID Act is but how easily it can be misunderstood. Anne writes: “With Real ID, it's no longer a right to move around freely in this country, it's a privilege. Real ID is required to enter certain buildings, travel between states and get on a plane.” Please tell me what loss of freedom occurs with a national standard for state issued driver licenses and ID cards? The state licenses and ID cards we have now are already used to enter certain buildings and board planes. A Real ID Act compliant state driver license or ID card won’t give you any more privilege or freedom than the ID card or license you now carry in your wallet or purse does. The problem is there are 50 different standards for identification with those licenses and ID cards. The Real ID Act simply sets a national standard. Once it kicks in, the card you carry now won’t be as useful.